Cassette Culture and the Art of the Mixtape (P.S. Track 5 is About You)

Remember the days when sharing your favorite music required more than just a "share" button on Spotify? In this episode, we are rewinding the tape to explore the lost art of the mixtape—the original, handcrafted precursor to the digital playlist. Long before algorithms dictated our musical tastes, making a mixtape was a labor of love, a social currency, and the ultimate form of personal expression.

We dive deep into the cultural phenomenon of the analog mixtape, tracing its roots from the boombox era of the 1980s and 1990s to its status as a nostalgic relic today. We discuss the meticulous craft that went into every single cassette: calculating the exact 90-minute runtime and using a trusty pencil to manually rewind unspooled tape.

But a mixtape was rarely just about the music; it was about connection. We share stories of how these curated cassettes served as sonic friendship bracelets, the ultimate high-energy house party soundtracks, and the absolute highest form of romantic flirting. From strategically placing that one specific track to send a subtle message to your crush, to passing a hand-labeled tape to your best friend, we look at how cassette culture defined a generation’s relationships.

Whether you grew up carefully timing radio recordings to catch your favorite songs or you’re a music lover curious about life before Spotify and Apple Music, this episode is a nostalgic trip down memory lane. We contrast the fast-casual nature of today's streaming platforms with the patience, intentionality, and effort required by the vintage mixtape. Is the modern playlist too sterile? Have we lost the emotional intimacy of sharing music?

Grab your headphones and your favorite blank cassette as we celebrate the DJs, the romantics, and the music fanatics who defined the era of analog music sharing.

Don't forget to hit subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with the friend who used to make you mixtapes!

Transcript

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SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hey everybody, you're listening to Dirt Nap City, the podcast about interesting dead people, but also about dead ends. And dead ends are what? Al from Austin.

SPEAKER_00 0:16

So my thought is a dead end is something that used to be around. We might have enjoyed it, a cultural phenomena type thing that's phenom that's not so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

Sometimes they're still around, like drinking fountains and synthesizers. Oh, there you go. But one of us, one of us is under the misconception that it's not around anymore. So it really is just things that we don't pay attention to.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Well, I'm glad you didn't pick two that I had done. Or those things that gross us out.

unknown 0:44

Huh?

SPEAKER_03 0:45

You mean that people used to do? Like not washing your hands after you went to the bathroom. Correct. Now everybody washes their hands. Yeah, that's not a dead end.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Okay. Alright. Well, see, now we've learned something.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Yeah. Today, I want to talk to you about something that I think both of you guys will be very familiar with. Um, it is it it probably falls in that 1970s, 1980s, maybe even early 1990s uh time frame.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Now, the last time or one of the not too long ago, you introduced us to a shirt that changed colors, and I still have not been able to verify that that ever existed. The hypercolor. Yeah. I think sometimes Kelly dreams about these things.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

He dreams in hypercolor.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think this. Are are you saying I'm having like an AI hallucination? But he accused me of making up the X-ray shoe fitter all time. True. Like he can't make it.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Oh no, I've had my foot in one of those.

unknown 1:37

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

This is not that kind of show, but okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

So, so uh the hypercolor shirts are real. I don't feel like you've done any research if you still don't believe me, so shame on you. Um we're not gonna have any debate about this. This this one this one is squarely going to not only be something you're familiar with, it's gonna get you excited. So let's say you're in you know, fifth grade, maybe eighth grade, tenth grade, even high school. Any some somewhere in there. You're you're in your you're in your formative years and you you like someone. You're like, hey, hey, I like that guy or girl. It's 2026, so I have to kind of be inclusive. But for us, it would probably would have been a girl, yeah, you think? So you like this girl, and you know, you maybe you're holding hands in class, maybe you're uh and then you kind of want to take it to the next level, but you don't want to be pushy, but you want to do something, and you don't have any money because you're a kid and you're broke. So what do you give her as a gift to tell her that you really like her and to allow you to say things that you probably couldn't say to her face, like in a subtle way. As soon as I say it, it's gonna be obvious. What do you it's something you make for her, something something you create? It's a creative, it was a friendship bracelet.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

No, is it one of those paper things where you go flip flop flop flop flop?

SPEAKER_03 3:00

You're gonna be married to a bum and you're gonna have 16 children. No. No? Okay, come on. But but sorry.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

Oh, wait, a mixtape? Yes. Oh yes. Is that is that right? Am I am I on to something here? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

I was a little older when the only reason I said fifth grade is because you guys were talking about kissing girls in fifth grade.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

That's that's why. No, mixtapes have just been replaced by playlists, right? Or do kids not do that? Um, they have been replaced by playlists, but they were a thing. Do kids do that? Like, do a fifth does a fifth grade kid make a Spotify playlist and send it to his intended?

SPEAKER_03 3:40

I don't have any fifth graders in my life. So if you're a fifth grader and you're listening to Dirt Nap City, first of all, good on good on you.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I was in shame on your parents.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

Second of all, go to bed. Well, no, a lot of people in bed listen to it to fall asleep. Oh, that's true. So we've already established that. But never make it to the end. Let's let's just say, let's just say I do think that playlists are a thing, but they're not the same thing. I mean, let's talk about this. Did either of you ever make a mixtape?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Oh, yeah. Carefully curated mixtape where you just pour over the order, first of all. Yeah, the order is so important. It's got to build it. You can't start with she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's too blessed. And it has to be can't be too on the nose either. Can't can't it has to be subtle, yeah. Um, and it has to be all songs. You're my girl now. But it can't be all songs you can make out of the side. Enough enough is enough some fun stuff in there, too. Yeah, yeah. It's a very delicate thing, but I was pretty good at making mixtapes, I think.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

And mixtapes weren't always for your betrothed or your your intended. It was you could make them for your friends, sure, right? You make a birthday one for somebody.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I think you're you might make it for a road trip. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 4:52

You you you last night were very adamant that I didn't break up your pool mix while we were here.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

I wanted to play some songs, and he's like playing. I played one song, and then I go, We're not gonna do this though. Yeah, we're gonna go back to my pool mix.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

So here's a little behind the curtains for all the Dirt Knap City fans. Sometimes Alex is a little rigid with his uh with everything. Sometimes Kelly forgets to follow the rules, and sometimes Kelly forgets to follow the rules.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

That's right. Just for an example here, let's just say we're at Alex's house and I I had the microphones all set up. I got up early and set everything up and got everything going, brought everything with me, just made a turnkey, made it easy for you guys. Alex is like, hey, I need to be at the head of the table, it's my house. And so I moved his mic. I I taped down all the cables. I had to pull up the tape and retape it, but it's Feng Shui. I I'm gonna win with Alex on this one. All right, so so mixtapes. Um, yes, so you could make them for your friends, you could make them for your your intended, you can make one for your parents. I feel like I made some for my parents. Really? Yeah, like like a 50 anniversary. It was all you know, all their songs from back in the day. Um, I still have a lot of mixtapes that that um my friend Johnny made a bunch that he and I would exchange. Did you burn CDs like that too? Yes, yes, and we're gonna get to CDs. Um, it it was you could do that, but more fun on cassettes. Well, the thing was it started on cassettes, and there were different ways you could do it. So, for one, what would be the most obvious way to make a mixtape? You mean record albums?

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Songs off of albums or something.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Yes, so if you had a record player, you'd hook up your cassette, and you might even have the level level knob on the cassette player, you might fade it out. Like if it was too long of a song, and you or or you might cross fade. I mean, you could get really fancy with that, but also sometimes sometimes you didn't have the album, or you didn't want to spend 14 bucks to buy the album, or you didn't have a record player, so you record it off the radio. Absolutely. A lot of people record some, and I can remember, I can remember actually the song Rapper's Delight 104 KRBE. So this might have been before your time. Was 104 KRBE a thing when you were here? So that was a that was a radio station here in Houston, and um I I learned Rapper's Delight with the DJ's intro to it. And he he basically I just remember this so well. He's like, and here's the Sugar Hill gang, baby, and then hip, a hop, a hit me to the hit me. So I would in my head I always say, Here's the Sugar Hill gang, baby.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

I used to record myself as the DJ Um introducing records that I had and trying to hit the posts. You know what I mean? By hit the post where you're talking, right to where the lyrics are right to where the lyrics start. Right. And I used to be pretty good at that, you know, and I'd practice. I've never heard that called hit the post.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's an industry term. Yeah. Huh. Do you do you have any of those cassettes? I'm sure I don't. Sure I don't. Really? I thought everything was within 15 feet.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, but I recorded over all that stuff, probably to make mixtapes for girls. Right? What about you, Adeb?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

You know, uh all of this it just sounds a little high tech for me. I uh my I remember early on making mixtapes, and it was just a very much clunk, the music started. For girls. No, this was really just for my guy friends and just making tapes.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

You never made a mixtape for a girl? I don't I don't think I did. I don't think I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

You got married young. Yeah, yeah. I made road trip, you know, I made, you know, playlist for when I say I call it a playlist. I mean I made a cassette tape to go on a road trip. And it would be timed out, so it'd be the entire, you know, from start to finish on the trip.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

You didn't have an auto-reverse on your cassette player. Probably not.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Now, one stressful thing about the mixtapes is the one shot you got at writing it down because you've got the little cassette uh yeah, the sleeve. The sleeve, right? And it would have very tiny lines, and you'd have maybe 18 songs on it, and you got one shot not to spell something wrong or because you're writing in pen, you're not writing in pencil.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

So so it depends on if that was TDK or BASF. Well they were all memorable. Remember all these brands though? Yeah, yeah. Fuji for sure. Uh and and you know, you had these sort of cheaper cassettes that you could get, but then like a Max L. Remember Max L? Max L was like, I thought that was top. Then there was Max Lilver and Max L Gold. And they tricked people like you into thinking it was. And a blank Max L gold tape was like 11 bucks or something, and you're like, all right, I'm gonna make my gold master on this.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

But you could go to Walmart and get one for 45 cents. Yeah. But I'll tell you what, I'll bet you if you find those old tapes, I'll bet you the cheap ones won't even play anymore. And I'll bet you those Max L golds still play.

SPEAKER_03 9:52

Now, let's talk about why um mixtapes existed. If you think about it, and this is hard for our generation because we kind of grew up with cassette players, they became popular. Um, as a matter of fact, uh they were introduced in 1963 by Phillips, and it wasn't just an audio format, it sort of democratized music. Before that, unless you had you know real-to-reel, like really expensive recording equipment, you just had to listen to what was what was on the radio, or you had to buy vinyl. You didn't, those were your options, right? You might you might be listening to a third a 45 or a 78 or a 30 three and a third, but you couldn't, or the radio, you couldn't put in and you had to listen to an entire band. Like compilation records didn't really exist. So if you wanted to hear this song and that followed by this song, followed by this song, that wasn't an option. Well, you could get Katel, but they weren't the original artists. But I don't know if you could get them at 63. That was more of a 70s thing, I think. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so that's kind of what they did. A lot of people would use two boom boxes. So I don't know if you ever had a boom box or a cassette with just a microphone in it that you could talk into, or even one of those cassette recorders.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Um, did were you ever doing that? And then your mom walked in and started talking. You're like, Mom. So my grandmother, who is a hundred years old, just turned a hundred back in April. Uh, I was doing a mixtape in my room, and uh, it had the Star Wars, the Miko Disco Star Wars. You remember that? It was it was it was like the Star Wars theme with a what girl are you making this one for? Hooked on classics, Shannon O'Brien, I think. So it's it's going and it's uh it's hooked on classics, and in that Star Wars thing, there's some sound effects with R2 D2, but boop boop boop boop boop boop. And it came in, and my grandmother said, That's Sipio. She meant C3PO, but she she called it Sipio, and that made it onto the tape. Oh nice. Like I didn't I didn't stop. I so anytime I hear that Star Wars Miko beat, and there's a certain point where R2 D2 goes boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, I always think that's sippio.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

You know what I just found two days ago was the 45 to the uh Miko Empire Strikes Back song.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

I have that upstairs. It's a 45 to that.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

Nice, nice. Yeah, Miko was and and they had like uh like spacey people dancing on the cover. No, it wasn't just a 45. Well, so you know you had to you had to really be uh innovative. Now, who do you think do you guys know who kind of did the most innovation and also why they're called mixtapes? You think it's just a mix of songs, but there's more of a story. Oh do you guys know about that? I don't so so DJs in the 70s um would make these tapes, and they called it a mixtape because it was their mix, it was their live set, and they would record these live DJ sessions, and that mix was what they called a mixtape, and then they would pass it around at bars, they would give it to people, like promoters and stuff to get more get more gigs. Oh, interesting. That was how they would show their um show their wares to and then and then the word mix, I mean it makes sense, right? It's a mix of different music, but the original thing was it was the DJ's mix. You were hearing the mix off their board as they were sampling records and stuff. Very cool.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Yeah, yeah. So did you see uh this just reminds me what was the John Cusack movie, High Fidelity? Yeah, yeah. He would communicate basically with mixtapes. With mix with mixtapes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

I do remember that movie. Um, well, you know, we talked a little bit about Les Paul and about music and technology and stuff like that. There there was this term called cassette cassette culture, and cassette culture was what these DJs were doing, what people were making, and it kind of had to do with hip-hop and stuff like that. It was interesting though, because eventually cassettes gave way to CDs, as you mentioned earlier, and CDs gave way to writable CDs. Not as easy though, as the no, no, no, more involved.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

You couldn't generally there wasn't a recorder where you just hit record, it was in a computer and you never really found making burning CD was very accessible.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

I burned thousands. So I'm sure you probably probably I mean I I would burn fifty copies of something, you know, I would make it and give it to friends. I think I gave you guys mixed CDs over the years.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

You you were there were years where you and Jody would create like an annual CD.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

Yeah, like an end like a Christmas.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

That was our little Christmas gift. I was always looking forward to that, and I had those for a very long time. Yeah. Um, good stuff. More more twang, less bang.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

So thank you. So you mentioned about writing in the sleeve, and you're right. I have terrible handwriting, and so it was always a challenge for me to and and I couldn't write small. Like the ability to write small usually just spell check. So what I would do is take a piece of heavy, heavy paper, cardstock, and draw an outline of it, and you know, figure out where the folds are supposed to be and fold that, and then do like maybe a collage. So I might take pictures and put it in there, and and then you know, kind of I might do the writing on another piece of paper so I could have several uh chances at it and then use a little glue to glue it in there. I'd spend a lot of time making sleeves for cassettes that would unfold and would have you know kind of messages about the songs and and pictures and basically your liner notes. Do you remember Kelly's ammo box with all the cassettes in it? I do remember Kelly. I actually still have that. I still have I still have one ammo box full of cassettes and one full of CDs and one full of shotgun shells. So there you go. I have three ammo boxes. You're you are a prepper, aren't you? Uh yes, I'm prepared for sure. I'm prepared for the days when we won't be able to uh listen to things online anymore, and I just want to rock out in my bunker, so I'll have my ammo box with cassettes and all your very uh guardians of the galaxy. All your Rayovac batteries with me so I can play my cassette player.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Hey, Rayovac, if you're if you're listening, sponsor us. You're you I don't see any Rayovac commercials these days. I'm sure you have a small marketing budget. We can work with you.

SPEAKER_03 16:17

So so the CD thing came and again it was not as refined, but actually, if you used um there were several there were several programs you could use, like Soundforge, Sony made this program called Soundforge, or you could use uh Audacity. These were editing programs. So you could actually take the the WAVE files or the MP3 files and edit them and do a better mix and then burn that onto the CD if you wanted to. But it was a lot of work. It was a lot more work and a little more involved. But with the CD, there were two cool things. Number one, you could make the sleeve that that slid into the front and you could make it multi-page. You know, you can make little booklets, which I did that sometimes. The plastic jewel cases. I still have probably fifty, I have a pack of 50 jewel cases that I never used that I still, you know, wow, I need to get rid of. Um, but then there was a thing called the CD stomper. Are either of you familiar with the CD stomper?

SPEAKER_00 17:11

No, I think I am actually. It's how you put the the sticker on to the label.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

Yeah, the label onto the CD. So yeah, so it was um what Avery, like Avery labels or something. Um, and you would print it in the printer and it was already die-cut the the circle with the little circle. Yeah, you would peel that out, you would put it upside down on the CD stomper, which was a round disc, plastic round disc, and it had a spring, and it had a a little nub for the whole of the CD. You would put it in there and you'd just go like that, like stamp it down. Yeah, and then the that would put the uh liner notes on or the label on perfectly.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah. So you started this by saying you're making it for a girl, but in talking to both of you guys, it doesn't sound like either of you made very many of these for girls. No, I don't think I ever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:58

I no, I did. I made I made them for girls. And were they I had girls interested in me at that time.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Were the was the purpose to send a message or just to like give her a piece of yourself? Like these are the songs I like. Probably more to than yes, or more two than one. This is my personality. If you listen to these songs, you'll get me.

SPEAKER_03 18:18

I well, I think also also just I didn't do that. Also, just maybe having time, spending time. If it was if it was a girlfriend that I was already spending time with, there might be songs we liked that we danced to. Remember when we danced to that one song or we were driving and listening to it? Yeah, I think that's what I did. Kind of nostalgia. Songs that were our songs.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Yeah. So, Alex, did you make tapes for girls?

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Yeah, yeah. I think it was more like sending messages or songs that we had in common, but never, I never thought to be like, if you listen to this group of songs, you'll get me. Because this is the essence. I wish I had thought of that. Because that's a better idea. He wanted to do you remember that song by Exile?

SPEAKER_03 19:03

I want to kiss you all over. Yeah, a little on the nose, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

To the night closes in, and then they only got worse from there.

SPEAKER_03 19:12

As it progressed, it went from kissing to heavy petting to other stuff. Sorry, Mrs. Milam. Um your son. It's time you know, yeah. So yeah, that was uh that was mixtapes. Um it was it was a fun thing. I don't think kids today have any notion of what that was like. And it took a long time. You could be working on a mixtape for days.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

So are you saying that kids today do not make playlists and send them to sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

I think they make playlists, but that's a totally different thing. There's not the there's not the physicality of that of pushing the buttons and pausing the pausing at the right time, and your grandmother walking in and ruining a take and deciding to keep it in there because a good producer hears something and says, that's yippio. That sounds great.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

I should leave it in. It sounds like progress, though. It sounds like we're getting better at technology.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

No, well, but but there is an argument. This what Kelly is describing with the mixtape to me is it's a very analog process, and there's there's something to be said for the process where things are slower, but I would argue that that's when CDs came out.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

I stopped for that exact reason. That then it involved computers and CD stompers and all that kind of stuff. So it's just a matter of when we stop progressing. Kelly went into the CDs, I stopped, but the next progression into MP3s and Spotify playlists, he got off the no.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

I have a ton of playlists, I just don't share them with people. They're generally just like I these are songs I like. Well, you don't have girlfriends anymore. Thank God. Uh well, Jody, if you're still listening, first of all, great job. I do made it. I do hope I made you. I know I made you some CDs. I don't know if we were together during cassette times, but um Jody, here's your assignment.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

I want you to make a 10 song playlist for Kelly.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

So so maybe if you have either created or even more interesting, if you have been the recipient of a mixtape, maybe you could write the fellas at not at Dirt Knap City.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah, yeah, we'd love to hear what was on your mixtape. And uh, you know, if if this gets popular enough, maybe we just do a mixtape of all our best episodes. Then people will really know what we're about. Good.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

There you go.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

Wanna get home babe? Gonna like you vibe. Oh day, I've been thinking about you, baby. My one desire. Gonna wrap my arms around you to hold you close to me. Oh babe, I wanna taste your lips. I wanna be a fantasy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

I don't know what I do without you, baby. Don't know where I feel. You're not just another love, you're not big. You don't have to stay just a little bit.