Who Was Saint Nicholas? (Christmas Special)

Happy Saint Nicholas Day! We are excited to share the story of Saint Nicholas with you today. Of course, Saint Nicholas eventually went on to become the person we know as Santa Clause. But what's the real story of this saint who lived from 270 - 343 AD?  Was he fat and jolly? Well, actually he was not. He was a very fiery and fierce defender of early Christianity - but he was also a giver of gifts and a protector of children. If you want to know the real story of Saint Nicholas, here is your chance! In this special Christmas episode, we explore the true life story of the man that we know today as "Jolly Old St Nicholas".

If you like the content we are creating and would like to support it financially, check our Patreon page here: https://www.patreon.com/DirtNapCityPodcast

Or, if you prefer to support us in another way, recommend an episode to one of your friends. We appreciate everyone who listens every month and look forward to making this podcast even better with your support.

Transcript

Alex: 0:07

Kelly, I'd like to tell you a story. Okay? Three little boys were playing in a field. They gather flowers and look at the butterflies. When they went into the city saw its towers in the themselves. But when they they forgot and went to the city. They walked around the streets, they said house of the butcher, and they said, butcher, can you please open for us? We're lost. We want a and they go in. And the butcher has a knife behind his back, comes up behind him, kills them, cuts You mean like brine? Yeah, with all the meat. Think of the parents not knowing when it was going one evening. So cold and the bishop. Bishop comes in. And he comes into the butcher's place. He says great bishop. He says, Oh, here's my best ham. I offer you the best ham because you're a great that salting tub open that salting tub up, where you butcher those little boys seven years ago. And rise up, children. Go back to your parents. And all of a sudden three the little boys were killed punished the butcher condemning him to walk in shame for the rest of his days with a donkey. Wow. story of the Oreo was the origin story, if you will, of St. Nicholas, somebody that we would know Christmas and others, Pierre Noel and others.

Kelly: 2:37

He's got names Kelly, I'd

Alex: 2:39

never knew St. Nicholas had such a gruesome origin story. Did you know that story,

Kelly: 2:47

that was one of the miracles he performed in order to become a saint. That's right.

Alex: 2:51

If you want to know more about how to become a saint, look at our back catalogue. Thanks, by step process of being the same. So we're not going to do that here yet, but I thought we'd do a Yeah, I

Kelly: 3:11

did hear about that. But But I heard a little different thing that he actually saved the Saltine Brian, but that he actually the butcher intended to sell them as meat because there was a them as you know, tender cuts of beef or tender cuts of meat.

Alex: 3:35

I think butchers get a bad rap in fables and

Kelly: 3:39

they generally do yes, nursery rhymes.

Alex: 3:43

I would be if I was, you know, back in the day in Europe, I would be scared to death as one that wants to cut kids up and

Kelly: 3:55

don't they even their butchers and witches. Imagine if a butcher married a witch

Alex: 4:02

like what kind of a I think which is probably deserve the bad rap. They liked the bad

Kelly: 4:07

there's the Good Witch there's there's good witches too. And there's good butchers

Alex: 4:14

if you're a good butcher, email us. And

Kelly: 4:18

if you're a bad butcher, and you've sent someone to live in dirt nap city, also email us.

Alex: 4:25

Yeah, although if you've ever chopped up a child and put them in but we don't want to hear

Kelly: 4:30

Yeah, well, that's that's over the line. Because we're obligated attorney in so this this couple of times in the past once by mistake and several times intentionally. It's our collab going to be ahead of time. And so in this case, who is it Alex?

Alex: 4:53

St. Nicholas of Mira Myra,

Kelly: 4:57

Myra. Yeah, St. Nicholas of Myra I think he was born a long, long time ago. As a matter of

Alex: 5:09

I love the march 15. And really think there they knew that he was born on March 15 270. Well,

Kelly: 5:18

know, it was it was close to St. Patrick's day he was a Pisces. I think, though more know, today is December 6. This episode is published one day early, we usually publish on because what is December 6?

Alex: 5:40

St. Nicholas Day? Yeah, it's the it's

Kelly: 5:44

celebrated every December 6. And it is part of Advent season. Now, I had to actually look up mean, everybody's heard the term like advent calendars. But it's all about

Alex: 5:58

where you open a door each day and get a piece of candy

Kelly: 6:02

little chocolate, or, well, now they have advent calendars. They have like Lego advent probably even could do that. Like for older people, they could use it for their pills, you can just have

Alex: 6:17

did you just come up with that? That's

Kelly: 6:20

like, instead of a pill box, you have an advent calendar, the geofencing great idea. Well, Advent is actually the advent of Jesus of Nazareth. So the church decided that they would it's really it's the four weeks preceding Christmas. And it's really the darkest, coldest reason to rejoice. And so they were celebrating the fact that, you know, the theoretical birth of know, in our calendar, I'm sure it's changed over the years. But that Advent season is that four to Christmas in the US, okay, and other countries. And

Alex: 7:10

I love how, you know, we've talked about other saints, at least two other saints in on this of different types of things. So it's not the just the St. Nicholas is just the Saint of that we know sailors, and merchants and archers, archers, repentant thieves. Oh, not every thief. But once you got to St. Children, brewers. A lot of people think the brewer part is because of the story that and yeah, pawnbrokers, he's the patron saint of.

Kelly: 8:05

So is that why there's a picture of him up in Pawn Stars?

Alex: 8:09

You ever watch that show? Yeah. Oh, yeah. And patron saint of unmarried people and students,

Kelly: 8:18

You know, I also had, I had seen somewhere that he was the patron saint of orphans, as well.

Alex: 8:26

Probably has to do with the story. I just, well, maybe not. I don't know. He

Kelly: 8:31

was orphaned at a young age. Okay. He, his, his parents were, I believe, Greek Christians and were, they died at a young age. And he, he kind of was out on his own for a long time. But you know, we've turned in Western culture, and maybe Eastern culture as well. He's what we've turned into Santa the stuff I read about him, was not really fat. And they know this because they found his remains he wasn't fat. He wasn't really jolly, but he was more fiery and defiant. And he was someone that when there was a lot of persecution of Christians, right. This was this was shortly after the death the three hundreds. So we're not talking about Jesus hadn't been gone for that long. And so he that was actually put into prison for his beliefs for several years, until he was released by the which that was just a decree that you don't put Christians in prison anymore. Got it? Yeah, cost or repentant Christian persecutor.

Alex: 10:09

So, you know, it was about 1800 years before the full kind of what we know, as Santa Claus recognize. So it doesn't surprise me that he wasn't drew fat. But he did like to give gifts, guess back then, if you were an unmarried woman, there was a danger of you going into prostitution, support yourself, right?

Kelly: 10:41

And you couldn't get married without a dowry.

Alex: 10:44

Right? So he would go in and anonymously kind of drop. I don't know how anonymous it was, sack of gold coins through the window of different houses of unmarried women. So they could afford to married. It's a different time, Kelly.

Kelly: 11:07

Yeah, you see a guy, I mean, he'd probably get shot. Now, if he tried to throw a wind a bag right?

Alex: 11:16

Those stories don't even really make sense. You have to read them a couple of times and say, I guy. But I think it all made sense back then. Well,

Kelly: 11:25

that was and that was also something that sort of predicated this idea, because he did it And so this idea of anonymous gift giving, sort of came from or gift giving without expecting when he was caught, because there was a time when he had three women who had been with a wealthy been in a wealthy family their father had lost, lost all of his money. So they were sisters. They And you know, the reason that he lost his money was due to plotting and envy of Satan. The father, and envy of Satan. You wouldn't really hurt here that today, you know, maybe you invested in but that wouldn't be considered plotting or envy of Satan. What do you think that means? In this was a victim. So the plotting wasn't him plotting it was somebody else plotting he got he got taken internet, scammer calling him up and telling him that, you know, one of his daughters had been away. I mean, there's lots of things that could happen,

Alex: 12:48

but Geryon prints

Kelly: 12:51

Nigerian prince who has all this money he wants to transfer. But it turns out that St. in the way in the window. The guy was able to get his daughters married with with the money that St. daughters had been married, the third daughter, you know, St. Nicholas throws the money. And the him. And St. Nicholas said no, no, don't tell anyone keep it on the deal. Now, here's the

Alex: 13:23

That's what I was gonna say. I mean, sometimes people give anonymously, but they don't know if that was the case. This time. He must have been caught red handed once Yeah, yeah. Or maybe

Kelly: 13:42

No, that wasn't a miracle.

Alex: 13:43

This is just being a good guy.

Kelly: 13:46

I did have I did have another miracle that he performed though. Did you read about the wheat

Alex: 13:52

No.

Kelly: 13:54

So there was a famine going on in my era, from 311 to 312. And a ship came into town and Constantinople. Now, Nicholas, actually asked the because of the famine, he asked the sailors to the food to the town to help save the people from the famine and Myra? Well, the sailors were not this to the emperor or us we're gonna be in trouble. He said do it anyway. And they listened that they actually listened to him, unloaded the wheat. And then when they set sail back to the Emperor, they found that none of the wheat was gone, even though they had delivered enough to a Loaves and Fishes kind of thing. And it's interesting that some of these miracles sort of

Alex: 15:00

Yeah, that might be another reason that he's a sub patron saint of brewers. So the wheat.

Kelly: 15:06

Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So and sailors, right? Wasn't Didn't you say his patron saint of

Alex: 15:13

Yeah. And they used to celebrate like sailors used to, to pay tribute to him when they then. But several centuries later, whenever they would go into a harbor, they would at Christmas, leave out their shoes, and the sailors would put candy and whatever gifts back then that's the simple. couple of pieces of candy, maybe a nut? Yeah, yeah.

Kelly: 15:51

I mean, never. You never gave that was considered ghosts. And

Alex: 15:56

these kids would just go crazy. They check their shoes, and there'd be candy in their shoes. your kid shoes and calling it a Christmas.

Kelly: 16:11

I think people were a lot more grateful for little things back then. You know? Yeah, I mean, latest version of Xbox and PlayStation. Oh, this one has a lightning connector. I wanted USBC. Come

Alex: 16:27

I'm on Santa. There was no, there was no Boxing Day, probably back then where you return too. So it wasn't even

Kelly: 16:41

Yeah, it wasn't candy. That didn't happen till the like prairie days. I

Alex: 16:45

think the sailors would that go in and buy things at the market, and then the kids shoes you mentioned. Yeah. So you know, but then that got kind of transformed into being St. Nicholas is that in every country. Right? You know, there's kind of three types of people. If you look at kind of three categories of of gift givers. Did you know this three, cat? Three?

Kelly: 17:26

So I think there's sort of the the jolly kind gift giver? And then isn't there more a kind of gift giver?

Alex: 17:38

Oh, well, we can talk about that, too. I was gonna say that the gift givers are kind of there's Father Frost and Grandfather Frost and Father Christmas and all this kind of stuff. The bearded there's some cultures where the baby baby Jesus kind of like the baby Jesus. But it's never it a little chair, big Angel kind of thing. Exactly. So the baby is the one that gives the gifts. And American countries where it's the three wisemen, or the three kings, or the three magic men or They're the ones that bring the gifts because, because there they actually did bring the gifts. you're brought up in some countries. It's kind of morphed into well, we had the three kings, but also brought him in. But it's really interesting. And, and a little bit later, I'm going to tell you save some, save some time here. So I can tell you about the Yule Lads because I think you're gonna

Kelly: 18:56

Okay, well, well, yeah. So, you know, part of the part of the thing was they wanted children children to act more kindly, more, just better. And they did it because they figured if kids were always just a lump of coal. You know, it was like, if in the US if you're bad, you'd get a lump of you're bad, I'm gonna get you an Android phone. No.

Alex: 19:28

Did you ever use the threat of Santa not coming?

Kelly: 19:33

Santa is watching. Better be better. You better watch out you better not pout, you better you ever use that threat? Yeah, but God figured it out pretty quickly. That's my wife. Yeah,

Alex: 19:48

that's only funny if they can.

Kelly: 19:52

Yeah, we did a little bit. I mean, it was you know, there was an early early time when when actually They have kind of on Christmas morning will have things. So my my wife's parents actually like pajamas and socks and underwear. And so that's, you know, you get something from the there's usually like one or two gifts from that's just left on the, you know, under the tree from house very briefly. And I guess he brings the elves because there's usually a new pair of socks though, is the kids didn't really care about that. And so if you told them, they weren't gonna get

Alex: 20:40

Yeah, right. Who cares? What's the deal with the Elf on the Shelf? That came kind of after? supposed to the he's somebody who's watching you, you better be good.

Kelly: 20:54

I think that is I think it's a somebody's watching you. And it's like a physical threatening one, right? It's this tiny little cute elf. I mean, he looks a little bit like Chucky kind of scared of him. But I also think the Elf on the Shelf was one of those things. Like if you know this, but every trader joe's has a mascot. They'll have a, you know, a cow or a fish or elk it'll be a little stuffed toy. And if the kid finds the mascot, it's hidden somewhere in the Because Tate used to love to go to Trader Joe's and he loved to go to one that wasn't the one we a different place. And he would go find in and get that little thing. I think the Elf on the Shelf can watch you but it's not. It's not obvious. And then if the kid sees it there, he thinks that the

Alex: 21:55

But the subtext is you're being watched you better be good.

Kelly: 21:59

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's how the song goes, right? The

Alex: 22:02

Santa Claus song.

Kelly: 22:04

You better watch out. You better not cry. I mean, you better not pout, I'm telling you why knows when you're awake. He knows if you've been bad or good. I mean, this is all pretty deep

Alex: 22:18

Yeah, he's all knowing, bearded person who knows what you're up to. And you better turn it

Kelly: 22:27

So I think that, you know, for a long time from like, the 1200s to the 1500s. The celebration big deal. It was a little more of a thing than than Christmas. It wasn't, you know, it was moved came to look like he does today with a white beard. And the red hat was it had to do with mythology like Saturn and Zeus. And in Norse they have in Norway, they have one called Odin, Norse were I think they were often kind of muscular. They weren't really chubby, you know, and they late 30s, early 40s. You know, these are the kinds of guys that are in Viagra ads, right? That, you the ads, because they look good. And they have the white beard. But that was when that look kind of look like that. But they also had the magical powers, right? I mean, if you think about Zeus or And then all of a sudden Santa Claus can fly, you know, and he can, he can go up the chimney even octopus squeezing through it.

Alex: 23:53

Or a rat. So in some countries, Santa Claus can fly.

Kelly: 23:56

In our country. He can fly. No, it can't fly behind his his sleigh can fly. The reindeers thing.

Alex: 24:09

No, but if the reindeer stopped flying, he would crash to the ground.

Kelly: 24:11

But he's the one and if he could fly wouldn't Ranger placing a finger aside of his nose yeah. How does he do that? Huh?

Alex: 24:24

He jumps.

Kelly: 24:27

Santa Claus can't jump. So ultimately,

Alex: 24:30

though, just because he's white.

Kelly: 24:34

He's not white in all countries. So he turned into a little bit more of the Protestant partly through Northern Europe and that became in the US and countries around the world. Well, Jesus or a baby delivering gifts is a little ridiculous. I can't carry very many gifts right? I And so you need a man, you need a big, strong, strapping man like Santa who look who was modeled in. But then you also need someone they're a little bit scared of, because nobody's scared of a going to potentially have consequences for being naughty, you need a man like Santa Claus.

Alex: 25:24

I'm guessing this is what? After the gifts, stop being just little candies and nuts.

Kelly: 25:31

Yeah, this is when we got into like, you know, carved, carved horses, or, you know, those of gifts. Okay. Now, like you said earlier, there were different names for St. Nicholas or Santa scary and threatening. But did you know that he had a sidekick named Rue claws in Germany?

Alex: 26:00

Are you sure you want to get into sidekicks? Because if we if we get into the sidekicks, you Black Pete.

Kelly: 26:10

Oh, okay. I don't know who Black Pete is. Who was Black Pete? So

Alex: 26:15

from my understanding, the way it really got into the US was through New Amsterdam, where all their Christmas, Sinterklaas, comes Sinterklaas. Okay, since a class and he was this old, you know, fifth December 5 in the morning is the eve of St. Nicholas Day. And he was this old serious man with word he didn't. He didn't have reindeer, but he wrote a white horse over the rooftops at night, kind of beginnings of Santa Claus. He carried a big red book with all the names of the records of shoe by the fireplace and maybe a carrot for the horse, right. And a bowl of water some would even when the parents say no more pacifier, they would leave the pacifier for Sinterklaas, and he would like that.

Kelly: 27:28

So then he would give it to another baby. Maybe

Alex: 27:31

you're just done with it. That's when you're you reach that milestone in your life. Yeah, okay. and oranges, things. But But Sinterklaas had a sidekick. And today that sidekick is kind of being guess the law was that it was an African friend of his black people go around, you know, kind of others he would leave the coal or he would leave the or take their shoes or you know, leave

Kelly: 28:20

potentially racist part of it might have been strictly Danish but the or Dutch was it Dutch fact that they made it an African might be strictly related to, to the Dutch. But there were there was Rue Klaus which was rough. Nicolas, there was Ashton Klaus, which was ashy Nicolas of Pels nickel, which was very Nicholas. Belts nickel, like think of think of a belt, I guess.

Alex: 29:01

So this be like Wario or Waluigi. Ya know, just like, like a bizarro version, like a bad

Kelly: 29:10

and the thing is, it was kind of a good cop, bad cop thing, right? They wanted these other whip children or beat him with a stick or, you know, take away their pacifier or whatever the of a carrot and stick approach. Right. So So Santa Claus was the carrot and these other guys were the

Alex: 29:32

I guess so. And of course, the big one Krampus Krampus. Krampus was not even a real he have hoof hooves. Yeah,

Kelly: 29:48

he was like a Christmas Christmas devil.

Alex: 29:51

And you would have like the horns of a goat. I feel like I saw Krampus in early heavy metal

Kelly: 29:59

definitely. Unlike on, who's Jack Black's ban, Tenacious D, sure he'd be on the cover of a

Alex: 30:07

or Jethro Tull. Right, right. He would carry chains and you would whip kids. Yeah,

Kelly: 30:14

right. Krampus if

Alex: 30:16

you've, if you've been bad, he would whip whip you, right? You'd get him instead of saying,

Kelly: 30:22

here's, here's my theory about that. And that is that the, the gifts weren't that great, marzipan, or, or, you know, some fudge, or an orange and orange, you know, that's not that But but it really, but so therefore, they had to have really much worse bad side, a much worse either get an orange or you can get a beating, which would you rather so, so I'm gonna, you know, get an orange don't get an orange. The kids wouldn't care, right? But if it's, if it's orange the orange sounds pretty good. That's

Alex: 31:12

true. Now, the sidekicks weren't always bad. Sometimes they were just like sidekicks, like in the Bafana which is like a witch, but she wasn't a bad witch. Like you said she she rides a Lucia and other parts of Italy where she would bring you ride a donkey, she was old blind lady kids.

Kelly: 31:44

But before we go too far off of the original St. Nicholas, you know, into into Santa how he became the bishop of Myra. No, please. Okay. Well, it was, first of all, he was very young age. He was a he was an orphan. And when he was younger, you know, maybe in his teens or 20s, back from the Holy Land. And it turns out that the original bishop of Myra was his uncle. But while bishop of Myra. So the other church elders and the priests in the city decided that the first priest made Bishop. Nicholas was there he came in to pray, and they made him the new bishop. It seems

Alex: 32:50

to select the holy man.

Kelly: 32:51

The next one to walk in is the new bishop. And that was him.

Alex: 32:57

I had heard that story is as well. I don't know what to believe. Oh,

Kelly: 33:03

it's gotta be true. I mean, you heard it on dirt nap city.

Alex: 33:07

It's just funny that if that was true, you'd think you wouldn't want to tell anybody that that?

Kelly: 33:15

He wants to keep the gift giving a secret to you. They couldn't keep a secret back then. You blabber. So, did you? Did you read it all about the Council of Nicaea? Tell me, so, I'm not sure was ni ca e. A, and Ice A. But apparently it was a big deal that happened in 325. And Nicolas, you apparently was a bit of a firebrand, you know, he, he, he got that butcher, you know, the butcher him and put him to shame. When he killed those kids. He brought the kids back to life. He or a horse and chastised him. But at the Council of Nicaea. He was there. And there were two, this been a church thing. Maybe it was like a Bishops Conference or something. They had two different thought, or I don't know what you call them, but maybe they were even sort of like denominations. was actually a guy named arias. And he was promoting Arianism, of course. Now, I don't know you know, Germans and Nazis and stuff like that. It's sort of a master race thing. I don't know if that Nicholas was a big, big devotee of Trinitarianism. And you can guess what that's

Alex: 35:00

The Trinity the Holy Trinity, right. Yeah, Father,

Kelly: 35:03

Son and Holy Ghost. So So Nicholas, apparently lost his temper during the Council of walked up on stage and slapped an Aryan in front of everybody. Oh, yeah.

Alex: 35:22

Will Smith style? Yes, it's probably frowned upon. Yeah.

Kelly: 35:26

So apparently, he actually was chastised by Constantine for doing that. And Constantine Pallium PA, Ll iulm. I don't know what a miter or a paleo Mr. Do you know, it's probably that thing this

Alex: 35:49

is our good St. Nicholas nonroad. slepping. Yeah, but

Kelly: 35:53

it was not because he was mean is because he believed so strongly in turn to Trinitarianism

Alex: 36:02

Use your words.

Kelly: 36:04

Well, so basically, later versions say that, Oh, that it was actually Arias himself. It he and there's, there's a debate whether he punched him or slapped him with an open hand. So other versions of the story. And he actually saw a vision of Christ and the Virgin Mary while he was prison because he loved them so much. And then they broke his chains and restored his estimates.

Alex: 36:43

Wow. So that was a miracle who performed that miracle?

Kelly: 36:47

He No, no, Jesus and Christ, Christ and Mary

Alex: 36:51

did that. But that must have been a miracle. It was a

Kelly: 36:55

miracle. Yeah, I mean, he was there for it. I don't know if that counted is one of his busted him out of getting himself out of jail, getting himself out to get himself out there it Apparently. Sure.

Alex: 37:09

That's probably not what the jailers thought that so

Kelly: 37:12

there's actually there is actually a a painting of a famous painting in the basilica San Oh, really? Yeah. And they actually celebrate that on Easter

Alex: 37:30

open handed.

Kelly: 37:31

Hmm,

Alex: 37:31

was it open ended? Was it Oh, it

Kelly: 37:33

was seen debate about whether he punched him but I'm gonna say open hand on the painting in painting.

Alex: 37:39

I thought you said it was famous.

Kelly: 37:42

Well, it's not that it's not famous enough to have reached me. I know about it. But you know basilica de San Nicola in Bari, Italy. I'm gonna go see it. That's where he's buried. You know,

Alex: 37:59

was. I was in Bahrain. Actually about six years ago I was in bar Did you see his remains

Kelly: 38:07

If you're Italian, and you can drive over to Bari and send us a snap of that picture of that allow pictures. A lot of times they won't allow pictures, no flash photography. Just just use the

Alex: 38:23

Or just tell us Yeah,

Kelly: 38:25

it should be it should be Google it here. Let's let's just see real quick.

Alex: 38:30

I mean, do you hope it was open? Slot?

Kelly: 38:33

I hope and I'm about to find out. Nicola.

Alex: 38:36

What do you hope it was a punch? Oh

Kelly: 38:38

slap because I feel like that would make Will Smith so much more relevant.

Alex: 38:42

Not even sure if that was a slap. Call it a slap.

Kelly: 38:47

Here it is. Oh, man, there's Oh, there's a lot of these. Good. Oh, look at this. Hold on. this to you. Yeah, no, it's it's it is a full on slap Yeah. 100%

Alex: 39:09

It's not a photograph, Kelly. I mean, it's painting. Do you see it? I know but their hand to

Kelly: 39:16

Are you looking at it?

Alex: 39:18

What do you hold on? Where are you sending this?

Kelly: 39:20

I'm sending it right now. It's a very cool. I mean, they look like a couple of chess pieces. for at the Council of Nicaea.

Alex: 39:41

It almost looks like an AI kind of if I had typed in two priests arguing or it almost seems look at every nose only

Kelly: 39:58

forehands. Look at it. had to count the look at look at the way that areas look at the like the power what

Alex: 40:10

would what do you want people to Google so they can see this? What would they? I just

Kelly: 40:15

typed in? Nicholas slapping areas painting. Okay,

Alex: 40:21

so do that. Yeah, Google Google. If you're driving, if you're driving, pull over.

Kelly: 40:26

Or just ask ask Siri. or whoever, huh? It's it's a cool painting.

Alex: 40:33

He's kind of like, it looks like

Kelly: 40:35

he's kind of pushing him away. But but but the reason I think it was more of a slap is behind his head. Like, it looks like he he didn't slap him across the face. He kind of like slapped

Alex: 40:53

But I wouldn't show this to your kids. I wouldn't say Hey, kids, would you want to see

Kelly: 40:59

Right. This was this was at the mall right before you went up and met him. That's why he was

Alex: 41:06

This is a dad asking if we could cut in line, right?

Kelly: 41:09

No, no, you can't. Well, so yeah, he

Alex: 41:13

doesn't really look like Santa Claus. Like you say he's a little thinner. But he's got

Kelly: 41:19

he's modeled after Zeus. Right? I mean, wouldn't be surprised if he could shoot a

Alex: 41:25

Seriously. And

Kelly: 41:26

look at those hats. How are those hats not falling off? How are those hats still on their

Alex: 41:33

That's what I want to know. Interesting, too. I don't know if there's any symbolism in the got the white cross. Yeah,

Kelly: 41:43

it's cross Arianism versus Trinitarian. ism. Right. Right.

Alex: 41:49

But we don't know what Arianism exactly promotes. Yeah, well, but he's not blond hair blue Is the guy with the black. True, true. He isn't what we we'd know as well.

Kelly: 42:05

I don't I don't think the Germans had it quite right. But well, I

Alex: 42:10

mean, anyways, that's a it's an outstanding painting. Who's the artist just so we can give?

Kelly: 42:16

Oh, yeah, we need to. Maybe we should put that in the, in the description. It just says the Eastern Orthodox icons and episodes of St. Nicholas, at Nicosia are shown in a series of in Bari, Italy. So okay, so this was a series, there's, there's more, there's, there's like, of them. So

Alex: 42:51

it's like a series of him beaten this guy down, right?

Kelly: 42:54

If you like this one, go on to the next one. It's like, it's like a children's book. You there's another one here. That is a little calmer looking.

Alex: 43:07

It's like going to those flip flip movies. Right? St.

Kelly: 43:11

Nicholas, in a bar fight. So all of that said, you know he did die. And there is a bit of believe that most of them are in Bari, Italy. That's that's what it said there in that in that

Alex: 43:37

And I really wish I would have known about this when I went to

Kelly: 43:40

Yeah, I mean, are you ever going back to Bari? Italy? Probably not. Unlike yeah, pretty after his death, the Roman Emperor Theodosius the second order, the building of the Church of St. of St. Nicholas, in my era that was ordered by the Roman emperor. This all took place during Roman

Alex: 44:08

And my was like, near Turkey, right? Yes, yes.

Kelly: 44:11

I believe that. That was a I think actually, it was part of Turkey when he was born.

Alex: 44:17

Okay, it was all the Roman Empire like us. Yeah,

Kelly: 44:20

sure. Yeah, that was. So you know, ultimately, I think the thing he was remembered of the good, the good way, not the bad way. But, you know, Christmas in America, back in the day everybody thinks it's too commercial today, and they're probably right about that. But what really of Santa Claus to light was Washington Irving's book about New York, where the kids were visited rooftops and bringing gifts to the good children's, the good children and switches to the

Alex: 45:09

Wow. So even then they were getting beating this was in the

Kelly: 45:12

early 1800s. Right? Well, teen 20 I don't know if he was actually giving them switches if with switches or if he was giving them to them to bully other kids. You know, like, maybe those kids

Alex: 45:30

Nintendo Switch,

Kelly: 45:31

Santa, please bring me a switch so I can beat up little Alex.

Alex: 45:36

So you're saying I thought that was a phrase like giving him the switch was like beating him. like a symbol of have you better be like a war?

Kelly: 45:48

I mean, he would have never won, he would have to come down the chimney, eat the cookie, without being caught. Right? I

Alex: 45:56

mean that. Yeah. What's the problem?

Kelly: 45:59

Maybe he left the switch for the parents to beat the children? I don't know, but seems time

Alex: 46:02

consuming and efficient. Maybe if he wouldn't eat? Maybe you shouldn't? Yeah, I think

Kelly: 46:12

Oh, really? But how does that punish the naughty child because then the naughty child just

Alex: 46:18

I don't know. It's just kind of disingenuous to take someone's food.

Kelly: 46:24

I don't like it. Well, so that was all in a book called knickerbockers history of New York. takes on Santa Claus. And then in 1821, there was an illustrated poem called The Children's friend, associating Santa Claus with Christmas. And he really looked like Santa. And this one, it took away all of his religious garb. Right. So no more white cross, no more hat like that. And they put he kind of became the gift giving Santa's

Alex: 47:10

now was that was the night before Christmas, or did that come even later?

Kelly: 47:15

That that was called the children's friend that that story now I know, actually. So that was inspired by the Children's pen, there was a story called A Visit from St. Nicholas. And that's it basically it was 1822. Okay, and it was written by Clement Clark, and it was for his children. And he going to become sort of a phenomenon. It was published anonymously. And that is really that sleigh his eight reindeer, the plump, jolly old elf, you know, all this stuff. It kind of went thing for that to happen. Because, you know, it was all newspapers. And you know, there was wasn't became that first modern notion of Santa and 1822.

Alex: 48:19

And then didn't Coca Cola. Take that and run with it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that and polar bears. So drawn out version of taken from that poem. That's kind of been the gold standard. To what? To what

Kelly: 48:39

Yeah. become the standard look for Santa for all the years since then. Yeah.

Alex: 48:45

So in looking at the different types of gift givers, you know, I told you that there's kind of what they call it in Central Europe, they call it Christkindl which came which means Christ child these things kind of

Kelly: 49:09

get Americanized brought together.

Alex: 49:13

No, they just get brought together like two or three different figures kind of become one. And names of these things. Like in Uzbekistan, they call them snow grandfather, okay, you know, or are frost. Yeah, in in Wales, they have chimney John.

Kelly: 49:39

Chimney John.

Alex: 49:40

I love chimney. In Russia. It's Lord of the cold. Lord

Kelly: 49:45

of the cold. That's a pretty that's a pretty big name. In Armenia, they

Alex: 49:49

call him winter grandfather. Okay. But But I think my favorite one of all of these is what they folklore with people that we've never heard of all right, and it's this whole thing where different Christmas. And these stories like we were talking about earlier, all designed to make kids behave. like an oak or gris or a female over. She's got an appetite for the flesh of mischievous children. She has a husband, but he, I think his name's lepa Louis, but he just is lazy and stays home. Okay, cat. And the cat is this gigantic cat, like a monster. And he says people who haven't received in Iceland, it was an incentive for the workers to get to finish the wall, like to finish clothes, or buy. But even people in Iceland today, they get stressed out about having to buy a new outfit the old cat will eat you if you don't buy new clothes before Christmas. Wow for yourself, not

Kelly: 51:19

there. And so they need clothes to stay warm. And that also that probably helps the strong economy.

Alex: 51:27

It's just such an elaborate story. But here is my favorite part of this. This legend is that are known as the Yule Lads. And the Yule Lads. Sound. I know it's kind of sounds like a boy band. they're these kids are these 13 kids are pranksters who mostly steal and harass and they 12. So there's 13 of them. Well, better

Kelly: 52:04

than 12 Days of Christmas. You got the 13 you'll lads? Sure.

Alex: 52:08

And they leave also small gifts and your shoes. So you put your shoes out every night and a rotten potato.

Kelly: 52:16

Are they all boys? Or does it say yeah,

Alex: 52:19

they're all boys. Okay, and here and each one of them has a distinctive thing that they one of them in starting with starting with December 12. Now these are the actual names are give you the English translation. Okay. So December 12, your visit by the sheep coat Claude. but he just comes in and he harasses the sheep and he has peg legs, so he's easy to catch. He doesn't gonna harass your sheep. But

Kelly: 52:55

do they call him McGregor the sheep harasser? No.

Alex: 53:00

The December 13 Is the gully Gog. Okay.

Kelly: 53:04

You know what a gully is? Yeah. It's like a valley, like kind of were

Alex: 53:08

shot down a river. Sure. He hides in gullies and steals milk. Some legend is that he comes sucks.

Kelly: 53:20

And there's a lot of cows and gullies and Iceland, I guess. Yeah,

Alex: 53:24

it's all sheep and cows and Jelly Bellies. Then December 14, you might be visited by stubby licks the crust off of the pans like from your leftover so the I don't know if these are pranks. have to watch make sure you wash your pans or

Kelly: 53:48

you'll get stubby

Alex: 53:52

December Well speaking of licking December 15 comes the spoon liqueur. Oh, and he steals and malnutrition because that's the only thing oh that's the only thing he's is just licking people dishes, this can be hard. Yeah, if you're washing your dishes you're fine with these December 14 and he steals leftovers and he licks the pots all

Kelly: 54:25

has to do with sort of cleaning up after Christmas dinner right? I mean it seems like you does he still lick it and take it because if he leaves it then you could just leave all your guys steal stuff so it's gone like your spoon is gone? Yeah, okay. And

Alex: 54:45

then of course on the same theme December 17 is bowl liquor. And he so you get that spot spoon

Kelly: 54:55

the Icelandic name for bowl liquor.

Alex: 54:57

No, not in front. Okay, but Bolick are hides under your bed and he waits for you to put down

Kelly: 55:07

man, he better hope that's not a chamber pot.

Alex: 55:10

So now we're off of the pots and pans. Yeah, kitchen stuff and now we go to December 18 comes

Kelly: 55:18

just getting bored

Alex: 55:20

Doorslammer just while he does exactly what you think he does, he just wakes people up by lived with a few of these people in college

Kelly: 55:34

you're missing some spoons. The

Alex: 55:37

summer night teams comes. Different skier is skier is like kind of yogurt. They have an ice. 19 is secure gobbler. And he just loves you. Okay, like let's steal your yo Yeah. December 20. Comes he steals any sausages that are being smoked.

Kelly: 56:05

Oh, yeah. Cuz they hang up there in the rafters. Yeah. Now December

Alex: 56:09

21. It gets a little weird. That's weird. Okay, it's when window paper comes. Oh, okay. So sniffer. Wow, doorway sniffer has an abnormally large nose and he just comes around looking for smells bread, he's coming in and taking it. December 23 is Meat Hook. He uses a hook to steal candle stealer. Wow. Where he follows children. I guess kids, you have candles of Christmas Eve and And actually in 1746 parents in Iceland were banned from tormenting their kids with the stories pretty traumatic.

Kelly: 57:06

Yeah. 13 of them. I mean, that's that's a lot. 13

Alex: 57:09

You're visited every night. But I think as long as you keep a tidy house. Yeah. And you just aren't gonna balk and avoid man. Yeah,

Kelly: 57:20

there's, they're like, they're like having rats or roaches, you just got to gotta keep things

Alex: 57:27

again, you know, and reading all of these different worldwide traditions, it seems like the kings or Zen Sinterklaas, or any of these seems like the one thing that's constant is trying to basically. And

Kelly: 57:50

I think and I think the idea of giving gifts anonymously, or giving gifts without that was the that was the original thing was St. Nicholas. And the dowry that he gave, right, he have any motivation other than to help the people.

Alex: 58:10

I wonder when it became fashionable to give gifts to adults, because everything I've been behavior. But that we didn't give adults didn't give presents to other adults for a while.

Kelly: 58:28

The idea that he was giving the money for the dowry, he was kind of giving money to the didn't pay the dowry. So maybe that was maybe that was the early idea that there's the Gift of the giving a gift and sacrificing something than then the gift they receive was also a sacrifice, but that might have have something to do with it. But yeah, I mean, the idea of Santa Claus, I think was of St. Nicholas was maybe more about giving in general and standing up for what you believe in

Alex: 59:15

Yeah, and it's amazing how this thing is just keep keeps on evolving.

Kelly: 59:19

And the idea that Santa Claus could fly it with with, you know, going up the nose going up sleigh. So, do you know I happen to know the circumference of the Earth in miles? No, 24,901 around the world in really basically. Well, I guess it could be 24 hours if he's going the same sunset so that basically the sun's going down because he only comes at night, right? He'd have mock Mach one is 1195 kilometers per hour or 717 miles per hour, that's the speed of sound. In to fly at 1038 miles per hour. So instead of 717, which is Mach one, he's going 1.5 mocks, and he's sleigh. Now, that doesn't account for stopping to eat cookies, beating children delivering the

Alex: 1:00:41

but it also doesn't account for the places where Santa Claus isn't the thing. And where bad takes care of that that can cut up what percent of kids do you think are bad? Oh, 80 or 9090? Wow. Unless,

Kelly: 1:01:01

yeah, unless I guess if he's got, you know, if you got a sidekick to beat the children, then fast he goes. Here's my question, though, is you would at that speed actually hear a sonic boom. Eve?

Alex: 1:01:19

I don't think so.

Kelly: 1:01:20

So there's there's something going on there. I don't know if he has some sort of stealth silently. But maybe

Alex: 1:01:29

you're onto something. Maybe more kids are naughty than we think. And he only has to go to

Kelly: 1:01:36

Yeah, that's true. 1000 around the world.

Alex: 1:01:38

Maybe it's just that you and I have really good kids. And we never knew. Yeah. It's like, Well, and he's only visiting. No, maybe the real task is the sidekicks that have to go around

Kelly: 1:01:58

Yeah. And luckily, there's lots of those, you know, the each country has their own. So all not a very big country so they can take care of it quickly.

Alex: 1:02:09

Yeah, yeah. So there's only one doorway sniffers. And he has to travel to all the houses

Kelly: 1:02:19

I think of how many doorways are in the house, right. I mean, there's multiple doorways in

Alex: 1:02:24

student liquor, I guess he just gets all his food he eats once a year. By making spoons. If

Kelly: 1:02:31

you think about it, entire country where the spoons, there's probably there's probably

Alex: 1:02:38

Well, they say he's abnormally thin. Well, with Santa

Kelly: 1:02:41

was Santa going, you know, around around the world. Let's assume those 1000 people, those different countries. So we still got to make it around most of the world. Do you know the world around the globe? In in an airplane was 46 hours and 40 minutes. What year was that? That was in Space Center. And they had to stop for fuel three times and Chile, Kazakhstan and more. Mara Tyus. I

Alex: 1:03:21

Mauritius. That's Island. Yeah. So it still took 40 How

Kelly: 1:03:26

many 46 hours to fly around the world as fast as they could. Yep. They went from straight South Pole in a Gulfstream jet. That just goes almost the speed of sound.

Alex: 1:03:41

Wow. So that's probably the short way around to Yeah, that's amazing. It still took two full

Kelly: 1:03:49

46 hours. I mean, it's it's pretty amazing that he doesn't one day, but he's he has. He has different names for Santa. Did you happen to see the one the Finnish Santa the the Santa from joola Pooky. Now in a lot of the Scandinavian countries, you know, my, my brother in law's is so Julia Pooky literally means the Yule Goat.

Alex: 1:04:35

I don't know why in so many countries. It's a goat. Yeah,

Kelly: 1:04:40

I mean, well, goats are pretty amazing. You know, they'll eat just about anything they are.

Alex: 1:04:48

It's like sometimes it's it's like a elf did turns into a goat or a gnome that turns into a

Kelly: 1:04:56

right. Yeah, that's the cloven hoof kind of devil kind of thing. too, you know that ghosts are stuff. But the one person that we haven't really talked about that probably deserves a little bit Mrs. Claus.

Alex: 1:05:15

Man, you're right about,

Kelly: 1:05:16

do you know that? She actually has a first name? There's a debate about her first name. In called mysteries of city life. And in it, he identified Mrs. Claus his first name is Gertrude

Alex: 1:05:37

Griffin. Gertrude claws did not know that. I did. But

Kelly: 1:05:41

since then, it's sort of been updated and a lot of people now nowadays think her first name is

Alex: 1:05:48

That's from the Rankin and bass show. TV show from the 60s. Oh, okay. Her name was Jessica.

Kelly: 1:05:58

Jessica Claus.

Alex: 1:06:00

Yeah, she was like a young woman. And it was. Remember the Santa Claus is coming to town?

Kelly: 1:06:08

No, I didn't realize her name was Jessica. Yeah. Well, and then there's also a little bit of children. Now in most paintings and stories, you never hear of him having children of his own, but it was a burlesque musical. In 1892, and the they had a daughter named Kitty Claus. But that didn't

Alex: 1:06:46

No, you can't do

Kelly: 1:06:48

it for last Christmas musical. We're featuring kitty claws. Now, of course, you can

Alex: 1:06:59

Dasher, Dancer, Prancer, Vixen, Comet, Cupid. Dondre. Is it Dondre or Donner and Blitzen?

Kelly: 1:07:10

it is Dunder Dunder Dondre. Either one it's pronounced and that actually is New York Dutch

Alex: 1:07:21

I think in the but in the song it's donner. Yeah,

Kelly: 1:07:26

yeah. But Dondre Dunder, Donner and Blitzen are thunder and Mifflin. Thunder, Thunder there was a story.

Alex: 1:07:40

Oh, Dunder, and Donder. And Blitzen is thunder in London. Yeah. In Dutch.

Kelly: 1:07:46

There was a story in 1902 called The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus. And those reindeer reindeer were actually Flossie and glossy.

Alex: 1:08:02

You see how have you just changed something how dumb it it becomes like that wouldn't have

Kelly: 1:08:08

I kind of liked flossy and glossy those could be like the dental they bring you reckless and spotless, fearless and peerless and ready and steady. They all they all had a pair.

Alex: 1:08:22

This is according to who, according to this book,

Kelly: 1:08:25

The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus written in 1902 by Frank Ballmer, that

Alex: 1:08:32

Frank Baum of Wizard of Oz fame. Maybe. Wow, maybe? Yeah, he wrote The Wizard of Oz. Oh. So

Kelly: 1:08:42

I guess not. I mean, I'd never heard of it until now.

Alex: 1:08:45

And then Rudolph was just from the song written in the 60s.

Kelly: 1:08:50

Well, what I had heard actually was that it was from a poem, a verse written for the then it was published as a book later, but it was actually a advertising thing for Montgomery.

Alex: 1:09:09

Oh, okay. Okay, I don't know how that Gene Autry what your Did you record that song? Oh, man.

Kelly: 1:09:15

Thought it was that rock and roll?

Alex: 1:09:19

Probably not. Yeah, what about rocking around the Christmas trees that rock and roll? Ah,

Kelly: 1:09:24

yeah, yeah, I think it was you know, it was 50 years ago, a modern take on a Christmas carol.

Alex: 1:09:30

if you want to know more about what Kellyanne I think are rock and roll, check out

Kelly: 1:09:37

So Kris Kringle Santa Claus you know Papa frost, Papa Noel, Father Christmas all that stuff.

Alex: 1:09:45

Chimney John chimney John.

Kelly: 1:09:47

He was an interesting character, as you could tell from all this. But the original Saint for all those miracles for for slapping down areas for the Find the haters out there and the doubters promoting or demoting Christianity. I'm just saying he stood up for what he believed in. And I

Alex: 1:10:11

Yeah, yeah, let's pour out one for Kris Kringle.

Kelly: 1:10:15

And if you enjoy these types of shows, be sure that you have subscribed and hit the little use now, this is our last episode of 2023. But we got some big things coming in 2024. Alex, you want end of season two, you're saying and to season two,

Alex: 1:10:37

if you can believe it, Season Season Three starts out and we will have a video option. We're you can see what we look like. And you can see us waxing poetically about the different people that platform you're listening to now, but will you'll just be able to watch us on Youtube while

Kelly: 1:11:01

we're giving you more options. And don't forget, do something nice this holiday season. gift to somebody you normally wouldn't give one to Alex recently gave me a gift of a book. And I I think of him every time I open it up.

Alex: 1:11:22

Nice. Yeah. Nice. Happy December 6 Everybody and Merry Christmas. Yeah.

Kelly: 1:11:28

And happy new year. We're looking forward to 2024 goals for 2024 on dirt nap city. I think need more fan mail. So if you want to send us a piece of candy, and just leave it in our shoe,

Alex: 1:11:46

marzipan.

Kelly: 1:11:47

Any of the above

Alex: 1:11:49

rotten potato.

Kelly: 1:11:50

Come lick our spoons. All right, man. Good to see you Alex. Thanks for tuning in everybody. holiday and take a little time off get some rest and relaxation and come back ready for more

Alex: 1:12:07

All right bye stock and open up the last day saw the Chris I stood outside of this box again of kids came over

Unknown: 1:13:01

right